It really illustrates the point that even if we wanted to fully filter out anyone with a sordid past, it would be unrealistic to research the person behind everything we interact with. So true integrity would be impossible.
The argument that always gets me thinking is when there’s actually a negative butterfly effect because of our engagement — when a person who does terrible things profits off of our attention/money. When their business is active, can we still separate them from their art — and can we still separate our engagement from their bad acts knowing that we actively contribute to their power?
I love ethical discussions but they always make me so dizzy 😵💫 haha
Those are some great points. I think we should default to most people are good most of the time but nobodys perfect. We may get burned from time to time but I prefer to give others the benefit of the doubt.
Saw your post on Reddit about showing what you've read, and I checked your works, clicked this one and had a great time reading. This one is really simple yet impactful.
I love Charles Dicken's works, and to be honest, when I heard how he treated his wife (which is disgusting), I contemplated my admiration for him. I mean, there's no use in disliking his works because of his personal problems because if I haven't heard about what's he like, I would've continued reading his work without knowing anything. It proves that all it matters is consuming the art that's great in our taste buds and just leave it as it is.
Thank you Samantha and welcome! Our cancel culture has brainwashed us into believing that if someone hasn't lived a perfect life then we can't respect anything they've done. But if that's the case then we'll never get to enjoy much of anything.
The shopping bag is a good example you’ve shared. I wonder if the moral dilemma is the same as admiring an artist. What if, instead of the person picking up the groceries weren’t someone of an opposing political persuasion, but a murderer. Does what the person did in the past not matter?
This is a great point. I'm a HUGE Michael Jackson fan myself, and I've had friends point out that I shouldn't be. My argument has always been exactly what you say here.
Arman, your essay reminds me of Victor Salva, the director of the highly recommended "Powder" (1995). He's a convicted sex offender (abusing and filming a 12-year-old boy) who spend 15 months in Soledad State Prison. Despite his horrific actions, done over the course of weeks, his movie is extraordinary. While I'm not going to rip the covers off my books any time soon, I agree with you completely. (BTW, I just subscribed, and I look forward to more of your insights.)
Thank you Larry. I've never heard of Victor or that movie but now I'm curious to check it out! It's just one of thousands of examples that I'm sure we could find. The fact you are able to appreciate his art without supporting all of his actions is the sign of a strong mind in my opinion.
That's a good point. I still think it's ok to support their work monetarily by keeping an open mind and being willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Instead of just blindly taking the opinions of others and completely avoiding their art.
Art vs Artist comes down to whether or not you believe in or acknowledge the role of the collective unconscious in your work. Strangely there is a parallel here to ‘On the shoulders of giants” which is familiar in the sciences: that the collective ingenuity of humankind is far faster than your personal contribution, no matter how great. And though you get attribution if you’re lucky enough for the recognition, and the credit, no one would argue that they did it without benefiting from tens of thousands of years of human discovery.
Whether I find is that artists are in the same dilemma and you find this right now in starkest contrast with the artists vs AI. Ideas of intellectual property have distorted the measure of their art’s importance, the gravity of their contribution. The collective unconscious, including but not limited to the society that provided the privilege of their education, has shaped their expression profoundly. To the extent that the artist can remove their ego from their art, I find, the art becomes more powerful, connects more with the depth of the totality.
It is quite possible that despite all the flaws, an artist who does this tapped into something far deeper and more perfect than themselves.
As a result of my personal experience as a creator (I won’t use the word artist, it’s not for me thanks) my best creations take on a life of their own, and are the product of flow, channeling and selfless love. I’m not perfect, I don’t have to be, but every step I take toward that direction, no matter how ‘far away’ I am from someone else’s idea of perfect, I succeed in deepening my craft.
Therefor, I look at the art and forget the human behind it: “Forgive them, they know not what they do.”
Love this post - so true. Gives me another perspective.
For example Michael Jackson - every time I listen to one of his songs (Man in the Mirror is my favourite), I feel guilty. Because I hate what he has done, but I do love the song and enjoy it every time I listen to it. With this perspective I can accept I just love the art.
Thank you Marie. I still feel tempted to reject certain people's work if theyve done something I disagree with. But I try to remind myself that it doesnt diminish the value of what they have so graciously shared. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. And we all have made regrettable decisions that we hope others never find out. But that doesnt mean we cant still create something worry of sharing with others and leave our mark on the world.
Speaking of the ancient world, an obvious example that come to mind is the slave labor used to build the great monuments and temples at Athens or Persepolis or Halicarnassus. The pyramids of Egypt were built by people who may not have technically been slaves but who undoubtedly performed hard, dangerous labor and were possibly forced to do so.
An unimaginable amount of suffering and death went into the construction of the Great Wall of China, which is now visited and photographed by (and appears in the selfies of) millions of tourists every year.
That's a good distinction Emily. You're right, whoever we give any of our attention to is gaining influence whether we agree with them or not. I think the problem arises when we refuse to check out someone's art because of preconceived notions that have been implanted in our heads beforehand.
That grocery bag example is a great one!
It really illustrates the point that even if we wanted to fully filter out anyone with a sordid past, it would be unrealistic to research the person behind everything we interact with. So true integrity would be impossible.
The argument that always gets me thinking is when there’s actually a negative butterfly effect because of our engagement — when a person who does terrible things profits off of our attention/money. When their business is active, can we still separate them from their art — and can we still separate our engagement from their bad acts knowing that we actively contribute to their power?
I love ethical discussions but they always make me so dizzy 😵💫 haha
Those are some great points. I think we should default to most people are good most of the time but nobodys perfect. We may get burned from time to time but I prefer to give others the benefit of the doubt.
A great letter to introduce me to your works!
Saw your post on Reddit about showing what you've read, and I checked your works, clicked this one and had a great time reading. This one is really simple yet impactful.
I love Charles Dicken's works, and to be honest, when I heard how he treated his wife (which is disgusting), I contemplated my admiration for him. I mean, there's no use in disliking his works because of his personal problems because if I haven't heard about what's he like, I would've continued reading his work without knowing anything. It proves that all it matters is consuming the art that's great in our taste buds and just leave it as it is.
Would definitely check your other works. :)
Thank you Samantha and welcome! Our cancel culture has brainwashed us into believing that if someone hasn't lived a perfect life then we can't respect anything they've done. But if that's the case then we'll never get to enjoy much of anything.
The shopping bag is a good example you’ve shared. I wonder if the moral dilemma is the same as admiring an artist. What if, instead of the person picking up the groceries weren’t someone of an opposing political persuasion, but a murderer. Does what the person did in the past not matter?
Thats a good point. But I still think everyone deserves a second chance no matter what theyve done in the past. Even murderers.
This makes perfect sense! No one is perfect, no one. Thank you for the friendly reminder.
No one ever has been perfect and nobody ever will. Glad you enjoyed!
This is a great point. I'm a HUGE Michael Jackson fan myself, and I've had friends point out that I shouldn't be. My argument has always been exactly what you say here.
Thank you Randy. Any Michael Jackson fan is a friend of mine :)
Arman, your essay reminds me of Victor Salva, the director of the highly recommended "Powder" (1995). He's a convicted sex offender (abusing and filming a 12-year-old boy) who spend 15 months in Soledad State Prison. Despite his horrific actions, done over the course of weeks, his movie is extraordinary. While I'm not going to rip the covers off my books any time soon, I agree with you completely. (BTW, I just subscribed, and I look forward to more of your insights.)
Thank you Larry. I've never heard of Victor or that movie but now I'm curious to check it out! It's just one of thousands of examples that I'm sure we could find. The fact you are able to appreciate his art without supporting all of his actions is the sign of a strong mind in my opinion.
I agree... though it's harder if the artist is still alive and you are providing them with income or notoriety.
That's a good point. I still think it's ok to support their work monetarily by keeping an open mind and being willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Instead of just blindly taking the opinions of others and completely avoiding their art.
Yes, then I think it comes down to a mixture of values, facts and balancing them.
Absolutely
Art vs Artist comes down to whether or not you believe in or acknowledge the role of the collective unconscious in your work. Strangely there is a parallel here to ‘On the shoulders of giants” which is familiar in the sciences: that the collective ingenuity of humankind is far faster than your personal contribution, no matter how great. And though you get attribution if you’re lucky enough for the recognition, and the credit, no one would argue that they did it without benefiting from tens of thousands of years of human discovery.
Whether I find is that artists are in the same dilemma and you find this right now in starkest contrast with the artists vs AI. Ideas of intellectual property have distorted the measure of their art’s importance, the gravity of their contribution. The collective unconscious, including but not limited to the society that provided the privilege of their education, has shaped their expression profoundly. To the extent that the artist can remove their ego from their art, I find, the art becomes more powerful, connects more with the depth of the totality.
It is quite possible that despite all the flaws, an artist who does this tapped into something far deeper and more perfect than themselves.
As a result of my personal experience as a creator (I won’t use the word artist, it’s not for me thanks) my best creations take on a life of their own, and are the product of flow, channeling and selfless love. I’m not perfect, I don’t have to be, but every step I take toward that direction, no matter how ‘far away’ I am from someone else’s idea of perfect, I succeed in deepening my craft.
Therefor, I look at the art and forget the human behind it: “Forgive them, they know not what they do.”
Great perspective James thank you for sharing.
I think art is less impactful if its not created by a human. We want to connect with a work that was created by someone flawed just like us.
Appreciate your insight into this topic that remains endlessly fascinating to me.
Love this post - so true. Gives me another perspective.
For example Michael Jackson - every time I listen to one of his songs (Man in the Mirror is my favourite), I feel guilty. Because I hate what he has done, but I do love the song and enjoy it every time I listen to it. With this perspective I can accept I just love the art.
Thank you Marie. I still feel tempted to reject certain people's work if theyve done something I disagree with. But I try to remind myself that it doesnt diminish the value of what they have so graciously shared. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. And we all have made regrettable decisions that we hope others never find out. But that doesnt mean we cant still create something worry of sharing with others and leave our mark on the world.
Speaking of the ancient world, an obvious example that come to mind is the slave labor used to build the great monuments and temples at Athens or Persepolis or Halicarnassus. The pyramids of Egypt were built by people who may not have technically been slaves but who undoubtedly performed hard, dangerous labor and were possibly forced to do so.
Great point Robert!
An unimaginable amount of suffering and death went into the construction of the Great Wall of China, which is now visited and photographed by (and appears in the selfies of) millions of tourists every year.
I don't see that changing any time soon (unfortunately)
That's a good distinction Emily. You're right, whoever we give any of our attention to is gaining influence whether we agree with them or not. I think the problem arises when we refuse to check out someone's art because of preconceived notions that have been implanted in our heads beforehand.
I see youve thought a lot about this topic too. May be worth writing about :)
Yep, humans havent changed. None of us are perfect. That doesnt mean we cant still enjoy their creations without idiolizing everything about them.